Available formats: content-negotiated html turtle (see SIOC for the vocabulary)
Back to channel and daily index: content-negotiated html turtle
These logs are provided as an experiment in indexing discussions using IRCHub.py, Irc2RDF.hs, and SIOC.
| 09:29:08 | <CaptSolo> | morning |
| 09:29:49 | <robachan> | Hello all ... |
| 09:30:25 | <Gandalfar> | morning |
| 09:30:30 | <robachan> | Trying ustream again .... Semantic web is all nice n'all ... but can't we fix wireless first? ;) |
| 09:30:48 | <tommorris> | TomRaftery informs me over Twitter that Nova is banging on about the 'semantic graph'. Please, someone pick him up by his ankles and shake him until all the jargon comes out... |
| 09:31:39 | <CaptSolo> | tommorris: what's wrong with the jargon? |
| 09:31:51 | <tommorris> | it carries very little information content. |
| 09:31:52 | <CaptSolo> | might it be that people are better at understanding such a jargon? |
| 09:32:11 | <Gandalfar> | "can haz web 4.0" .. |
| 09:32:17 | <danbri> | robachan, it makes more sense in the context of his talk, slides, diagrams... |
| 09:32:42 | <tommorris> | well, I don't have any idea what it means - it's mixing technical language (graphs and semantics) with consumer/VC-friendly language, and serves only to confuse both |
| 09:33:04 | <bunny_cork> | hi folks |
| 09:33:19 | <bunny_cork> | robachan: are you ok with streaming my panel at noon? |
| 09:33:23 | <Gandalfar> | it's a nice overview of the ideology behind I think |
| 09:33:25 | <johann___> | Hello :) |
| 09:34:05 | <tommorris> | heh - Firefox wanted to correct 'reificiation' into 'deification' - slightly different meanings there... |
| 09:34:24 | <bunny_cork> | tommorris: indeed |
| 09:36:28 | <Gandalfar> | tommorris, Radar Networks raises $13 million - San Francisco Business Times: ... :) |
| 09:37:45 | <tommorris> | Gandalfar: sure. I hope they pulled out as much jargon as necessary when talking to their VCs. Not sure that language used to convince VCs is the best language to use when either talking to the general public or developers (the former won't really understand it and the latter tend to oppose needless complexity). |
| 09:38:20 | <danbri> | blogtalk isn't super nerdy, but it also isn't plain old general public |
| 09:38:34 | <tommorris> | politics of the english language- http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm |
| 09:40:10 | <danbri> | ACTION bluescreens |
| 09:40:28 | <danbri> | nova: 5 approaches to semantics |
| 09:40:39 | <danbri> | ...tagging, stats, linguistics, semantic web, AI |
| 09:40:50 | <danbri> | sw is a class of semantic technology |
| 09:40:53 | <danbri> | tagging ... |
| 09:41:04 | <danbri> | ... adding little keywords to data, providing a little more info about what it means or is |
| 09:41:06 | <Gandalfar> | isn't this called folksonomy? |
| 09:41:08 | <danbri> | pros: easy, cons: easy |
| 09:41:17 | <danbri> | tags not intrinsically meaningful |
| 09:41:32 | <danbri> | pushes problem out a little further, you have to figure out what tags mean |
| 09:41:40 | <Gandalfar> | it's easy to do .. so no technology evolved? |
| 09:41:52 | <danbri> | statistical approach: google, autonomy, lucene etc |
| 09:42:07 | <danbri> | ...pure mathematical algos, massively scalable, often language independent |
| 09:42:13 | <danbri> | ...but doesnt really touch what the content means |
| 09:42:18 | <Gandalfar> | cons .. good mostly for crowdsourcing |
| 09:42:20 | <danbri> | ... or certain query forms |
| 09:42:27 | <danbri> | google: favours the popular |
| 09:42:34 | <danbri> | ...good with highly hyperlinked content |
| 09:42:46 | <danbri> | ...autonomy a bit better with nonlinked data |
| 09:42:56 | <danbri> | ..approach doesn't require anyone to udnerstand or model the data |
| 09:43:03 | <danbri> | nova: Linguistic approach |
| 09:43:12 | <danbri> | ... systems that can read like a human |
| 09:43:15 | <danbri> | ...detect the entitites |
| 09:43:22 | <danbri> | ...nouns, verbs ... structure within a document |
| 09:43:33 | <danbri> | eg. powerset, hakia, inxight, attensity etc |
| 09:43:38 | <danbri> | ... great as true language understanding |
| 09:43:45 | <danbri> | ...good at searching for facts or relationships |
| 09:43:54 | <danbri> | ...lang dependent |
| 09:43:57 | <danbri> | SW approach, ... |
| 09:44:06 | <danbri> | basically has a lot of the benefits of the others |
| 09:44:13 | <danbri> | smart apps with less work |
| 09:44:26 | <danbri> | not as computationally intensive |
| 09:44:28 | <danbri> | tool maturity issues |
| 09:44:31 | <danbri> | can be hard to get started |
| 09:44:34 | <danbri> | hard to scale the data |
| 09:44:38 | <danbri> | q of who makes the metadata |
| 09:45:05 | <danbri> | ... |
| 09:45:21 | <danbri> | AI. ... also big projcts eg .cycorp's giant expert system |
| 09:45:26 | <danbri> | ...really works only in narrow domains |
| 09:45:32 | <danbri> | hard to make a general intelligence |
| 09:45:45 | <danbri> | also SW provides some limited reasoning |
| 09:45:49 | <danbri> | but this isn't nearterm goal |
| 09:45:54 | <danbri> | we just want linked shareable data |
| 09:46:05 | <Paul_Miller_> | AI - also covered in the FT today... in a piece that also quotes Nova... http://blogs.zdnet.com/semantic-web/?p=109 |
| 09:46:07 | <danbri> | ...tho there are probably some researchers here working on reasoning |
| 09:46:14 | <danbri> | some approaches make the software smarter |
| 09:46:18 | <danbri> | some make the data smarter |
| 09:46:21 | <danbri> | tagging: data gets smarter |
| 09:46:29 | <danbri> | stats: doesn't change data, software a bit smarter |
| 09:46:39 | <danbri> | linguistics: software much smarter, data a little smarter |
| 09:46:43 | <danbri> | ai: extreme of both |
| 09:46:50 | <danbri> | sw: right in the middle, a compromise |
| 09:46:58 | <danbri> | ACTION likes this analysis btw |
| 09:47:05 | <danbri> | nova: we encode back into the data |
| 09:47:13 | <danbri> | ... people can republish conclusions |
| 09:47:20 | <danbri> | ...make their metadata visible to each other |
| 09:47:35 | <danbri> | software can be smarter |
| 09:47:46 | <danbri> | classic approach was bottom up |
| 09:47:47 | <tommorris> | posted a rather silly post about jargon (namechecks iand, nova and Paul_Miller_) - http://tommorris.org/blog/2008/03/04#When:09:35:30 |
| 09:47:53 | <danbri> | everyone would put rdf and owl into content |
| 09:48:03 | <danbri> | ACTION thinks that's a little strawmanly |
| 09:48:12 | <CaptSolo> | "bottom-up" approach |
| 09:48:29 | <danbri> | top-down approach by contrast: making metadata automatically in crtain domains |
| 09:48:41 | <danbri> | larger apps, services are automatically transforming it, or in participation with users |
| 09:48:44 | <Gandalfar> | why not feed the technology from top-down into bottom-up and do it ground up? |
| 09:48:51 | <danbri> | in practice, metadata is being created largely automatic |
| 09:49:02 | <Gandalfar> | in a distributed fashion as the web was built .. |
| 09:49:08 | <danbri> | nova: feeling that vast majority in future will be machine generate |
| 09:49:09 | <danbri> | d |
| 09:49:34 | <danbri> | ..what we do: tagging, semweb, top down, stats, linguistics, bottom up, tiny bit of AI |
| 09:49:40 | <iand> | ACTION chuckles at tommorris's post |
| 09:49:42 | <danbri> | emphasis on Tagging and SW and top down, then stats |
| 09:50:33 | <danbri> | (OK i'm taking a typing break, rsi, anyone care to scribe?) |
| 09:50:49 | <danbri> | - nova gives a basic rdf overview - |
| 09:50:59 | <CaptSolo> | "bottom up" was somewhat down on the list (but they are using both) |
| 09:51:02 | <tommorris> | you guys need www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/ |
| 09:51:19 | <Gandalfar> | tommorris, that won't solve that problem |
| 09:51:19 | <CaptSolo> | triples which point to things described in onotologies |
| 09:51:27 | <CaptSolo> | RDBMS vs. triplestore |
| 09:51:45 | <CaptSolo> | nice thing about using triples - it's basically a simple list |
| 09:51:46 | <Gandalfar> | triples are just a big list and you jjust add stuff to te end of list |
| 09:51:52 | <danbri> | nice slides here |
| 09:52:06 | <Gandalfar> | lists don't scale.. |
| 09:52:07 | <CaptSolo> | it's easier to make semantic database, but the downside - it is hard to scale such a list |
| 09:52:16 | <CaptSolo> | such a database |
| 09:52:38 | <CaptSolo> | there are triplestores - databaass for semantic data which perform better |
| 09:53:06 | <CaptSolo> | there are solutions that make semweb databases more scalable, but that is stil a frontier |
| 09:53:16 | <CaptSolo> | we want trillions of triples in a datastore |
| 09:53:23 | <CaptSolo> | "One SemWeb or many?" |
| 09:53:30 | <tommorris> | hey, cpus are cheap and Moore's Law isn't slowing down any time soon |
| 09:53:41 | <CaptSolo> | answer - both |
| 09:53:49 | <CaptSolo> | The SemWeb s a web of semantic webs |
| 09:54:02 | <Gandalfar> | if you have that .. how can you do "top-down then".. |
| 09:54:11 | <CaptSolo> | same as the web - we each have a website which is a web of its own |
| 09:54:24 | <CaptSolo> | "Why has it taken so long" |
| 09:54:28 | <CaptSolo> | future outlook |
| 09:54:29 | <tommorris> | hmm... ponders whether to purchase a .org or a .info |
| 09:54:38 | <iand> | tommorris: http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/19/gordon-moore-predicts-end-to-moores-law-in-10-years/ |
| 09:54:40 | <Gandalfar> | tommorris, .org |
| 09:54:43 | <CaptSolo> | next 2 years - early adoption phase |
| 09:54:45 | <pauld> | silicon is cheap, carbon isn't |
| 09:54:57 | <CaptSolo> | 2010-2020 mainstream adoption |
| 09:55:04 | <CaptSolo> | now, let' s look at Twine |
| 09:55:48 | <bunny_cork> | robachan: can't remember if I asked already, but would you be ok with streaming my panel at 12h00? |
| 09:56:09 | <Gandalfar> | this talk is recorded .. right? |
| 09:56:43 | <CaptSolo> | demoes twne |
| 09:56:54 | <CaptSolo> | groups you can join - called twines |
| 09:57:04 | <pauld> | twine! cool! |
| 09:57:10 | <CaptSolo> | can see different types of information, types of content, people, ... |
| 09:57:34 | <CaptSolo> | sorry, a bit sleepy still, if someone wants to scribe some more detail of this demo |
| 09:57:44 | <CaptSolo> | now demoes creating a twine |
| 09:58:03 | <danbri> | ACTION reads http://tommorris.org/blog/2008/03/04#When:09:35:30 ... thinks tom is on drugs |
| 09:58:11 | <danbri> | i don't know any real people who talk about 'social network data' |
| 09:58:17 | <tommorris> | I am, to some extent |
| 09:58:53 | <tommorris> | I'm not saying normal people use it - but if someone says "the data you put in to Facebook", they understand it better than "your social graph" |
| 09:58:57 | <CaptSolo> | types in "john breslin", pulls in some content from the web |
| 09:59:00 | <Gandalfar> | nice javascript! |
| 09:59:11 | <CaptSolo> | in this case - John's data portability video |
| 09:59:21 | <danbri> | Twine looks pretty good |
| 10:00:07 | <bunny_cork> | needs tags: http://flickr.com/photos/bunny/sets/72157604037341717/ |
| 10:00:18 | <bunny_cork> | ooh |
| 10:00:27 | <bunny_cork> | ACTION watches the social graph vs. network debate :-D |
| 10:00:27 | <Gandalfar> | how do I tag your photos? |
| 10:00:35 | <Gandalfar> | ah, add tag |
| 10:00:40 | <bunny_cork> | Gandalfar: do you have a flickr account? if you do, you just go on the photo page |
| 10:00:45 | <bunny_cork> | exactly |
| 10:00:45 | <iand> | tommorris: isn't that the point though? don't we want people to stop thinking about "the data they put into facebook" and "the data they put into myspace" |
| 10:00:58 | <CaptSolo> | when found some info (eg, a video or a book on the web), a sidebar shows some rich data about the object found |
| 10:01:01 | <bunny_cork> | ACTION crowdsources tagging though she hates that word (crowdsourcing) |
| 10:01:09 | <CaptSolo> | can then add this object to a twine |
| 10:01:22 | <CaptSolo> | "twine It" |
| 10:01:30 | <tommorris> | ACTION makes a mandatory reference to http://bingo.adactio.com/ |
| 10:01:34 | <CaptSolo> | let's look at what's going on under the hood |
| 10:01:35 | <Gandalfar> | why can't it pull in ireland automatically from the web? |
| 10:02:03 | <pauld> | twine looks nice, but not seeing much "semantics", yet |
| 10:02:07 | <bunny_cork> | did jeremy add an interface so we can suggest new words for the bingo? |
| 10:02:16 | <iand> | pauld: you shouldn't |
| 10:02:17 | <tommorris> | bunny_cork: e-mail? |
| 10:02:37 | <iand> | semantics are for geeks, like valves in a car |
| 10:02:41 | <CaptSolo> | pauld: in pulling richer data from the web is a part of semantics |
| 10:02:48 | <bunny_cork> | yeah, but I talked with him about making the text file availalbe so we can check it out |
| 10:03:00 | <CaptSolo> | but really users do not have to see anything different. apart from better ways for finding information |
| 10:03:02 | <tommorris> | I'm sure he probably wouldn't mind if you cloned the page and JS and added your own words |
| 10:03:07 | <danja> | (iand, our car is transistorised) |
| 10:03:20 | <bunny_cork> | will the person with the BEEPING MOBILE please turn it OFF? |
| 10:03:26 | <CaptSolo> | some RDF/XML wasvisible on the screen |
| 10:03:57 | <CaptSolo> | data about the object are turned into RDF and put into the datastore |
| 10:04:25 | <danbri> | I always hated the word 'semantics' |
| 10:04:55 | <danbri> | 'graph' to me evokes diagrams, charts, connections, analysis,... ie. something technical |
| 10:05:07 | <iand> | yep |
| 10:05:27 | <danbri> | and i'm happy with 'social graph' etc in that it gives a technical word for technical data structures that describe the world; i think it encourages us not to confuse the world with its description |
| 10:05:30 | <iand> | none of our customers users are asking for more semantics in their applications |
| 10:05:47 | <danbri> | we can keep 'social network' and 'social networking' as names for things in the world |
| 10:05:49 | <CaptSolo> | danbri: can understand hating the word. what would you use instead? |
| 10:05:52 | <Gandalfar> | no semantification of my thesis? |
| 10:06:21 | <CaptSolo> | ACTION semantificates Gandalfar's thesis |
| 10:06:29 | <iand> | CaptSolo: it's a good descriptive word but really it focusses on the how, not the what |
| 10:06:43 | <danja> | danbri - yep, but tommorris has a point about 'social network data' being the same as the graph |
| 10:06:49 | <CaptSolo> | shows data about a book pulled into twine |
| 10:07:10 | <CaptSolo> | in the next version (out tomorrow) there will be recommendations for related content |
| 10:07:12 | <iand> | i still think graph is too technical for most people... in the sense we use it for anyway |
| 10:07:22 | <danbri> | I talk about the Web and the World. In my world there is a Web, there are people, documents, groups, ... some documents make claims about ... people, documents, groups. And the patterns of connection in the world, as described in those connected Web documents, form a weird distributed data structure ... that is so weird it deserves a technical name. |
| 10:07:51 | <CaptSolo> | twine added some more tags and relations to the data |
| 10:08:11 | <CaptSolo> | so some data come from the web and some are figured out by twine |
| 10:08:24 | <CaptSolo> | it's like a wiki too - everything is editable if you have permission |
| 10:08:39 | <CaptSolo> | discussion attached to the bottom of every item |
| 10:08:46 | <Gandalfar> | tiddlywiki approach would seem good in this interface |
| 10:08:48 | <danja> | (has anyone got beta access to twine yet?) |
| 10:08:50 | <CaptSolo> | every twine is also an email address |
| 10:08:57 | <CaptSolo> | or has email |
| 10:09:02 | <Gandalfar> | danja, he promised it for after the talk |
| 10:09:06 | <CaptSolo> | you can mail information to a twine and add them |
| 10:09:06 | <bunny_cork> | is twine somewhat like that service (with an S, can't remember name) which has "lenses"? |
| 10:09:10 | <CaptSolo> | from a mobile phone, etc. |
| 10:09:35 | <bunny_cork> | squidoo |
| 10:09:45 | <bunny_cork> | http://www.squidoo.com/ -- is twine related to that? |
| 10:09:46 | <iand> | danbri: who, other than us geeks, cares about the weird distributed data structure |
| 10:10:03 | <iand> | here's a blog post from a petrolhead friend: http://blog.jsdi.co.uk/?p=24 |
| 10:10:29 | <CaptSolo> | step 1 - good bookmarking, group information management |
| 10:10:32 | <iand> | do you understand what he's talking about? do you need to to go visit your family? |
| 10:10:45 | <danbri> | everyone, ian. they just call it the Web. and that's fine too. they just don't realise how weird it is yet. which is ok. but they don't understand how it'll affect their privacy etc., which is not ok. |
| 10:10:53 | <CaptSolo> | what was the next step? |
| 10:11:17 | <CaptSolo> | can use twine in a number of different ways - as a blog, a wiki, a listserv, ... |
| 10:11:21 | <danja> | ACTION quite happy to use the term graph, but only with folks that aren't expecting barcharts |
| 10:11:34 | <bunny_cork> | are we running late? |
| 10:11:36 | <danja> | Gandalfar, ta |
| 10:11:45 | <CaptSolo> | can create new ontologies, classificaion |
| 10:11:48 | <bunny_cork> | just so I know how many danish scones to eat during the break so that I'm functional during my panel |
| 10:12:43 | <CaptSolo> | GRDDL mention |
| 10:13:07 | <bunny_cork> | what is GRDDL? |
| 10:13:09 | <CaptSolo> | so that people can teach twine to bring their info into twine |
| 10:13:28 | <CaptSolo> | can it bring in raw RDF[/XML]? |
| 10:13:44 | <CaptSolo> | the frontend is web2.0, we just add richer data |
| 10:13:53 | <CaptSolo> | the part that is hard to replicate is the intelligence |
| 10:14:07 | <tommorris> | bunny_cork: GRDDL is a way of attaching a 'profile' to a web page which describes the underlying semantic meaning |
| 10:14:08 | <danbri> | GRDDL is related to the microformats idea; it gives a way for a page to include a link to ways of extracting structured data |
| 10:14:08 | <iand> | (don't know but Nova said it'd be exposing a lot more RDF in the future) |
| 10:14:30 | <tommorris> | bunny_cork: here's an example of a GRDDL profile I created a while back - http://tommorris.org/profiles/nsfw |
| 10:14:35 | <bunny_cork> | ACTION is willing to knock twine about if she gets a beta invite |
| 10:14:46 | <bunny_cork> | so, how do we get invited in? |
| 10:14:57 | <tuukkah> | i think he said we'll all get an invite |
| 10:15:01 | <bunny_cork> | nsfw, really? |
| 10:15:09 | <bunny_cork> | ah ok, cool |
| 10:15:11 | <Gandalfar> | business cards! |
| 10:15:20 | <tuukkah> | invite cards :-) |
| 10:15:27 | <tommorris> | bunny_cork: it's a really simple use case that I put up to show how simple GRDDL can be |
| 10:16:09 | <pauld> | was going to ask the SPAM question |
| 10:16:40 | <pauld> | wants a twine invite! |
| 10:17:04 | <bunny_cork> | is robachan there now? |
| 10:17:08 | <bunny_cork> | ACTION pokes robachan |
| 10:17:20 | <bunny_cork> | ACTION prepares to poke robachan again if he doesn't react |
| 10:17:40 | <CaptSolo> | danbri asks: are you using it internally |
| 10:17:43 | <CaptSolo> | yes |
| 10:17:53 | <CaptSolo> | using it for information management in the company |
| 10:18:11 | <iand> | tommorris: do you list the URI used for the nsw predicate on that profile page anywhere? I can't see it (in my quick scan) |
| 10:18:45 | <tommorris> | iand: it's http://rdf.opiumfield.com/nsfw/nsfw |
| 10:18:56 | <iand> | cheers |
| 10:19:14 | <CaptSolo> | you''l be able to import your blog into twine and have a semantic version of your blog automatically |
| 10:19:16 | <bunny_cork> | anybody know where janschmidt is? |
| 10:19:33 | <CaptSolo> | sounds like SIOC |
| 10:19:57 | <CaptSolo> | can get data out in RSS, SPARQL endpoint, REST interface, ... |
| 10:20:05 | <CaptSolo> | currently these interfaces are not exposed to the public |
| 10:21:09 | <Gandalfar> | echo? |
| 10:22:26 | <pauld> | perfect storm slide |
| 10:22:54 | <pauld> | 2^n-n-1 where n is the number of participants |
| 10:23:50 | <JanSchmidt> | @bunny_cork: at the back of the room :) |
| 10:23:52 | <iand> | power law heaven: reed's law, sarnoff's law |
| 10:23:56 | <bunny_cork> | ah, cool :-) |
| 10:23:58 | <CaptSolo> | broadcast media - the value of network grows in proportion to the number of viewers |
| 10:24:03 | <CaptSolo> | n |
| 10:24:13 | <bunny_cork> | JanSchmidt: was going to ask you if you were willing to keep a (distracted) eye on the backchannel during the panel? |
| 10:24:24 | <bunny_cork> | so that tommorris can ask questions ;-) hehe |
| 10:24:33 | <JanSchmidt> | @bunny_cork: sure :) |
| 10:24:45 | <bunny_cork> | the value of the network grows with the number of people in the network, up to a certain point |
| 10:24:48 | <bunny_cork> | thanks JanSchmidt :-) |
| 10:24:50 | <pauld> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_J._Sarnoff |
| 10:24:58 | <bunny_cork> | so we'll have a panel with a door open on the backchannel |
| 10:25:01 | <bunny_cork> | :-) |
| 10:25:42 | <CaptSolo> | Metcalfe's law |
| 10:25:57 | <CaptSolo> | Reed's law |
| 10:26:53 | <CaptSolo> | "I am made greater by the sum of my connections - so are my connections" - Stowe Boyd |
| 10:27:09 | <JanSchmidt> | "Blogging boosts your social life" - http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/03/2178512.htm |
| 10:27:13 | <JanSchmidt> | cool! |
| 10:27:14 | <JanSchmidt> | :) |
| 10:27:37 | <pauld> | yay! the boss get's a namecheck: http://confusedofcalcutta.com/ |
| 10:28:46 | <Paul_Miller_> | pauld: well deserved! :-) |
| 10:30:10 | <pauld> | Reed's law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed's_law |
| 10:30:35 | <pauld> | nice sandcastle slide |
| 10:34:58 | <CaptSolo> | nice photo of David Bowie, in the context of multiple identities of us |
| 10:35:26 | <bunny_cork> | a namecheck? |
| 10:36:33 | <CaptSolo> | this photo: http://captsolo.net/info/my-img/2007/01/david_bowie_1.jpg |
| 10:38:02 | <tommorris> | who's on at the moment? (sorry, been distracted with relabelling my flickr photos with the right safety level and content types) |
| 10:38:36 | <CaptSolo> | http://2008.blogtalk.net/programme/davidcushman |
| 10:39:36 | <tommorris> | my current favourite identity - http://github.com/tommorris - like Twitter but for code commits |
| 10:40:00 | <CaptSolo> | github sounds interesting |
| 10:42:14 | <tommorris> | it's the best thing since sliced bread... in fact, better |
| 10:42:50 | <bunny_cork> | can soembody explain me what a namecheck is? |
| 10:43:04 | <danbri> | the act of mentioning a name? |
| 10:43:33 | <tommorris> | bunny_cork: when you mention someone's name. |
| 10:44:10 | <danja> | bunny_cork, "to mention the name of a product, brand, or performer publicly, especially in a song, a broadcast, or the press" |
| 10:44:16 | <tommorris> | it's kinda like a not-so-bad version of name-dropping |
| 10:44:27 | <Paul_Miller_> | Biscuit time! :-) |
| 10:44:39 | <tommorris> | this is hilarious - I am in Flickr tagging my 'profane' screenshots |
| 10:44:55 | <bunny_cork> | ok |
| 10:45:13 | <bunny_cork> | do what on the form? |
| 10:45:22 | <danbri> | sign lunch preferences |
| 10:45:27 | <danja> | ACTION infers the rest of tommorris's photos are sacred... |
| 10:45:52 | <tommorris> | my profane screenshots - http://www.flickr.com/photos/tommorris/tags/crashreport/ |
| 10:51:21 | <danja> | "Tom Morris doesn't have any photos tagged with crashreport." |
| 10:53:22 | <danja> | hmm, does danbri know of Darth Vader or vice versa? either way, are they scared? http://www.flickr.com/photos/tommorris/2271647774/ |
| 10:53:50 | <tommorris> | danja: you need to change your safety settings - they are all profane, remember |
| 10:54:53 | <danja> | ah |
| 10:54:59 | <tommorris> | :darthVader :usedToBeKnownAs :anakinSkywalker . |
| 10:55:21 | <tommorris> | :darthVader :fatherOf :lukeSkywalker |
| 10:56:24 | <tommorris> | { ?f :usedToBeKnownAs :anakinSkywalker . ?f :fatherOf ?s . } => { [] :bestMovieQuoteEver "Luke, I am your father."@en . } |
| 10:57:01 | <tommorris> | I think it loses something in the translation into N3 rules. |
| 10:58:32 | <JanSchmidt> | @tommorris: no one here, all out for coffee break :) |
| 11:02:39 | <tommorris> | bunny_cork: just looking at ur flickr screenshots - you need http://del.icio.us/tommorris/stopirritatingme+facebook |
| 11:24:03 | <miladka> | will Nova Spivack's slides be available on slideshare? |
| 11:24:51 | <JanSchmidt> | @miladka: we try to get a copy to upload |
| 11:25:13 | <miladka> | Jan: great, thx |
| 11:48:47 | <tuukkah> | meta what? |
| 11:57:57 | <andreavascellari> | Hello everybody! |
| 11:58:13 | <Cloud_> | hello andre |
| 11:59:06 | <johann___> | Hi Andre |
| 11:59:16 | <bunny_cork> | hi there |
| 11:59:21 | <bunny_cork> | <-- slightly stressed |
| 11:59:52 | <Cloud_> | dont worry bunny cloud is here |
| 11:59:59 | <bunny_cork> | :-) |
| 12:00:14 | <bunny_cork> | my main worry is "is the topic panel-worthy" |
| 12:00:32 | <Cloud_> | we can take very open questions on how social media is changing |
| 12:00:45 | <Cloud_> | we dont hvae to be limited if we find it too limiting |
| 12:00:49 | <bunny_cork> | I've prepared 5-6 questions for the panel to play ball with :-) |
| 12:00:57 | <Cloud_> | okay excellent |
| 12:01:48 | <Cloud_> | topgold can talk about anything ;) he can handle any curveballs |
| 12:02:15 | <bunny_cork> | hehe |
| 12:02:43 | <bunny_cork> | I need to trust my panelists, simply :-) |
| 12:03:30 | <danbri> | sorry I arrived late, but does 'spanish political blogs' mean political blogs in spanish language, or in Spain? |
| 12:03:40 | <tuukkah> | in spain |
| 12:03:55 | <danbri> | thanks |
| 12:04:04 | <tuukkah> | there's an election soon |
| 12:04:48 | <andreavascellari> | is there any live video stream? |
| 12:05:57 | <Wikier> | danbri: next weekend is the general elections there |
| 12:07:00 | <robachan> | andreavascellari: I am trying to stream, but it is just totally unreliable |
| 12:07:45 | <tuukkah> | cjb_ie, are you here in cork? |
| 12:08:06 | <bunny_cork> | Cloud_: I finish at 13:00 anyhow, right? |
| 12:08:19 | <cjb_ie> | tuukkah: i'm in cork but not at blogtalk |
| 12:08:28 | <andreavascellari> | robachan: ok! What are you using to stream? |
| 12:08:28 | <bunny_cork> | ACTION realises she doesn't ahve a wathch |
| 12:08:46 | <bunny_cork> | robachan: ok for streaming my session after? |
| 12:08:56 | <jgalvin1> | mornin cjb |
| 12:08:56 | <tuukkah> | cjb_ie, oh, are you located in cork more permanently? |
| 12:09:00 | <robachan> | unlikely |
| 12:09:05 | <cjb_ie> | bunny_cork: anything running irc should be able to tell you the time :p |
| 12:09:35 | <bunny_cork> | yes |
| 12:09:36 | <cjb_ie> | tuukkah: yup, lived in and around cork since 1981 or thereabouts :) |
| 12:09:54 | <bunny_cork> | but I won't be in front iof IRC when I'm moderating my panel |
| 12:09:58 | <bunny_cork> | robachan: oh :-( |
| 12:10:02 | <bunny_cork> | bother |
| 12:10:31 | <robachan> | unless you have some kind of computer that "just works"? ;) |
| 12:10:35 | <tuukkah> | cjb_ie, i'm chatting on an olpc and the logs are generated in haskell :-) my neo is in galway though |
| 12:10:38 | <bunny_cork> | ugh |
| 12:10:52 | <bunny_cork> | robachan: what about filming? that an option? |
| 12:11:12 | <robachan> | Will get what I can on my digital camera |
| 12:11:17 | <bunny_cork> | cool |
| 12:11:25 | <andreavascellari> | nice! |
| 12:11:44 | <andreavascellari> | Hey anybody using QIK there? |
| 12:11:48 | <bunny_cork> | robachan: should I leave you mind as a backup? |
| 12:11:57 | <andreavascellari> | or ustream? |
| 12:12:07 | <iand> | ACTION finds weirdly ironic article about blogging in ireland: http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9884266-7.html |
| 12:12:11 | <cjb_ie> | tuukkah: haskell? i looked at it once, made my brain hurt |
| 12:12:15 | <robachan> | sure! the more the merrier |
| 12:12:19 | <bunny_cork> | robachan: mine, I meant |
| 12:12:38 | <bunny_cork> | so when yours dies you can switch |
| 12:12:44 | <bunny_cork> | ok, going offline |
| 12:13:15 | <tuukkah> | cjb_ie, so cjb is not your alias but an alter ego ;-) |
| 12:13:32 | <cjb_ie> | tuukkah: it's my initials |
| 12:14:08 | <tuukkah> | (i mean i know a cjb on #haskell) |
| 12:15:18 | <tuukkah> | cjb_ie, do you got a neo though? |
| 12:17:45 | <tommorris> | wow, irish broadband penetration kinda sucks |
| 12:18:00 | <danbri> | q: 3 tags for our interests in social media... |
| 12:18:02 | <JanSchmidt> | bring them on! |
| 12:18:25 | <tuukkah> | tommorris, what i hear they work on it a lot in this sparsely populated country |
| 12:18:28 | <MingMechanic> | collaboration |
| 12:18:34 | <danbri> | mine would be: archival, decentralisation, integration |
| 12:18:49 | <MingMechanic> | synergy |
| 12:19:12 | <JanSchmidt> | academic, sociology, practice |
| 12:20:05 | <MingMechanic> | conversation |
| 12:20:29 | <danbri> | (can anyone take the edge off of the microphone echo? it seems almost a feedback noise, but not quite) |
| 12:20:41 | <tommorris> | tags: cheese, sex, monkeys |
| 12:21:47 | <pauld> | ACTION echo .. echo .. echo |
| 12:23:15 | <Cloud_> | danbri: will turn it down - is that better |
| 12:23:32 | <Paul_Miller_> | Cloud_: :-) |
| 12:26:16 | <danbri> | Cloud_, much better yeah |
| 12:27:01 | <MingMechanic> | Paragraphs are so 20th century |
| 12:27:06 | <Gandalfar> | thumblers then? |
| 12:27:39 | <tuukkah> | txts |
| 12:29:01 | <tuukkah> | did i hear prolog? |
| 12:29:18 | <danbri> | http://wordpress.com/blog/2008/01/28/introducing-prologue/ |
| 12:29:48 | <danbri> | if you like prolog check out http://www.w3.org/1999/11/11-WWWProposal/rdfqdemo.html |
| 12:30:03 | <Cloud_> | :) |
| 12:30:07 | <danbri> | (prolog in javascript by Jan Grant) |
| 12:30:18 | <Cloud_> | so prologue as i understand it is basically a skin for wordpress |
| 12:30:26 | <Cloud_> | that is on the front end of a group blog |
| 12:30:37 | <Cloud_> | that restricts the length of blog posts |
| 12:30:51 | <Cloud_> | and makes it "twitter"-like by forcing microblog entries |
| 12:32:14 | <danbri> | reminds me, we used to have a channel #foaf where thou must only use four char word text... |
| 12:33:50 | <jgalvin1> | I prefer #idle where you can't talk at all |
| 12:34:51 | <tuukkah> | ok times change... thanks danbri and Cloud_ |
| 12:40:19 | <cjb_ie> | and there was me thinking "prolog in javascript" meant "a js implementation of the declarative language" :/ guess i'm stuck in the 20th century |
| 12:41:24 | <tuukkah> | cjb_ie, precisely |
| 12:42:45 | <danbri> | cjb_ie, it is exactly that. take a look. |
| 12:43:08 | <danbri> | the panel prologue is http://wordpress.com/blog/2008/01/28/introducing-prologue/ |
| 12:43:16 | <danbri> | we're just hypertexting :) |
| 12:46:48 | <tommorris> | four word text: just shat atop thee |
| 12:48:16 | <danbri> | question from audience (me :) .... have these new services changed the way you use IM/IRC chat? |
| 12:48:25 | <danbri> | ah yeah, guy standing up said same thing more or less |
| 12:48:51 | <danbri> | twitter didn't change my blogging, but i think i've moved some behaviour out of more private im/irc into twitter |
| 12:49:25 | <tommorris> | twitter has made IM more universal for me - I can do it from my phone, computer, API etc |
| 12:52:28 | <Cloud_> | the reply structure in twitter leaves a lot to be desired as well as that issue donncha mentioned wrt private updates |
| 12:54:32 | <danbri> | I just signed up for jaiku (as 'danbri') to see if its better in that regard, ... but it doesn't seem to have much fancyness for re-finding one's buddies |
| 12:57:12 | <pauld> | depressed by "bloggers" talking about twitter |
| 12:57:24 | <pauld> | twerps the lot of them |
| 12:57:31 | <danbri> | ACTION reminded of psd's twitter/twerp post, http://blog.whatfettle.com/2008/01/05/are-you-a-twitter-twit-or-a-twerp/ |
| 12:58:00 | <cjb_ie> | ACTION is still trying to figure out what web 2.0 is ;) |
| 13:03:19 | <andreavascellari> | danbri: just added you on jaiku ;) |
| 13:06:02 | <danbri> | i'd add you back if i could see how :) |
| 13:07:07 | <tommorris> | danbri: http://jaiku.com/contacts/followers |
| 13:07:28 | <danbri> | hey tom, is the twitter-to-foaf thingy yours? |
| 13:07:45 | <tommorris> | yep |
| 13:07:50 | <tommorris> | opiumfield.com is my non-egocentric URI |
| 13:08:19 | <danbri> | is there already a utility in twitter scene for finding which contacts some people have in common? |
| 13:08:28 | <Stephen> | Hmmm Hey Tom and Co... Just checking out the #blogtalk slides http://www.slideshare.net/CaptSolo/foaf-for-social-network-portability |
| 13:08:30 | <danbri> | if not a sparql thingy would be cool |
| 13:09:13 | <pauld> | "I always google for 'thing problem'" before I buy 'thing'" |
| 13:09:21 | <tommorris> | danbri; not as far as I know |
| 13:09:41 | <danbri> | i tried loading a couple feeds into sparqlpress, but hit a sysadmin snag so am falling back on lazyness |
| 13:09:42 | <tommorris> | I've written a SPARQL-based one in Python though - http://tommorris.org/blog/2007/09/24 |
| 13:09:53 | <danbri> | ah cool |
| 13:10:28 | <Stephen> | Are there any live feeds audio or video? |
| 13:12:05 | <tuukkah> | Stephen, <robachan> andreavascellari: I am trying to stream, but it is just totally unreliable |
| 13:12:46 | <andreavascellari> | no problem ;) Do you have any link? |
| 13:13:10 | <andreavascellari> | tuukkah: drop it here on the chat! |
| 13:13:25 | <Stephen> | I'm interested in tuning in somehow to Michael Breidenbrücker (Lovely Systems, Last.fm) at 2pm GMT |
| 13:14:24 | <danbri> | I'm interesting in the difference between "are blogs a social network" vs "is blogging social networking?" |
| 13:14:52 | <danbri> | i think latter form generally encourages more clarity |
| 13:16:14 | <tommorris> | heheh: tweet from TextMate - http://muffinresearch.co.uk/archives/2007/03/20/twitter-from-textmate/ |
| 13:16:30 | <JanSchmidt> | thanks |
| 13:16:30 | <JanSchmidt> | :) |
| 13:18:37 | <andreavascellari> | danbri: good point! |
| 13:19:29 | <Stephen> | @danbri Is IRC Social networking? I just added you on twitter.... |
| 13:22:30 | <andreavascellari> | danbri: added you on Twitter too |
| 14:44:38 | <jeremyruston> | oops accidently logged into #bogtalk |
| 14:44:43 | <JanSchmidt> | LOL |
| 14:44:48 | <JanSchmidt> | much going on there? |
| 15:19:14 | <pauld> | Andera Gadeib: "understanding our customer - taking the escallator to the fitness centre" |
| 15:21:42 | <Gandalfar> | how was this slide cretead? |
| 15:22:06 | <aconbere> | Gandalfar: sent you a tweet |
| 15:22:21 | <aconbere> | Gandalfar: basically my xmpp tag is small because of a CSS error :) |
| 15:22:25 | <aconbere> | my tag cloud isn't particularly intellegent |
| 15:25:05 | <aconbere> | that should be interesting :-D |
| 15:25:54 | <Gandalfar> | let me figure out how to securily do updates, I think it's just an sha1 thing |
| 15:27:03 | <aconbere> | do you have the updates url set in the xpi settings file? |
| 15:29:58 | <bunny_cork> | Gabriela: thanks for the notes http://coniecto.blogspot.com/2008_03_01_archive.html#9170266738138326141 |
| 15:32:16 | <danbri> | pretty graphics :) |
| 15:32:23 | <danbri> | i like swooshy things |
| 15:33:28 | <Gandalfar> | I don't believe in idea that consumers know how to self-reflect |
| 15:33:42 | <aconbere> | infact over and over it's been shown that they don't |
| 15:34:10 | <aconbere> | they are usually pretty good the product that they like more than other options, but even that is suspect to the testing parameters |
| 15:34:39 | <aconbere> | at picking the product |
| 15:34:39 | <aconbere> | heh |
| 15:34:52 | <Gandalfar> | in that context .. this whole presentation .. it's a lot of pretty pictures .. but for more in-depth analysis .. |
| 15:36:09 | <Gandalfar> | kind of sounds that they are in similiar market that coComment |
| 15:39:37 | <pauld> | Casablanca: Wisdom of Crowds talks about independent views and influence between participants. How do you stop active members skewing the outcome? |
| 15:42:38 | <Casablanca> | apparebtly psd is not a fan of popfly. Who knew? :-) |
| 15:43:49 | <pauld> | Microsoft question "who's heard of popfly?" my hand goes up "wow! Popfly fans!" er NO! |
| 15:44:29 | <Gandalfar> | is there openid bridge to liveID? |
| 15:45:27 | <Gandalfar> | the mentioned blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/martharotter/ |
| 15:46:39 | <SvenLatham> | very slow to load ... must be all those controls Martha has on there ;) |
| 15:46:46 | <Gandalfar> | btw .. it doesn't work in Safari 3 |
| 15:46:53 | <Gandalfar> | the widgets thingies.. |
| 15:47:12 | <Gandalfar> | http://dev.live.com/ |
| 15:49:44 | <Gandalfar> | so .. it's a really cool CMS? |
| 15:52:54 | <aconbere> | I'll be asking about standards and interoperability :P |
| 15:53:14 | <aconbere> | which is of course the first horifying gut feeling whenever you see MS hype a product |
| 15:53:46 | <SvenLatham> | Is Contoso the new Northwind? |
| 16:02:27 | <JanSchmidt> | anyone here familiar with widet customization in wordpress? |
| 16:02:46 | <JanSchmidt> | need to adapt the names of "standard" widgets and am not sure where they are stored |
| 16:02:59 | <bunny_cork> | JanSchmidt: oh... |
| 16:03:15 | <bunny_cork> | many of the my ou can simply change the name that is displayed in the sidebar by clicking on the blue box top right |
| 16:03:21 | <bunny_cork> | is that the name you want to adapt? |
| 16:03:40 | <JanSchmidt> | jep, but there are a couple of widgets that don't hagve the blue box :) |
| 16:03:57 | <bunny_cork> | aha |
| 16:04:00 | <JanSchmidt> | that is: the name is "hardcoded" somewhere.. :) |
| 16:04:03 | <bunny_cork> | pester those who have written them? |
| 16:04:06 | <bunny_cork> | yeah |
| 16:04:14 | <bunny_cork> | donncha should be able to help you ;-) |
| 16:04:21 | <JanSchmidt> | ok cool :) |
| 16:23:14 | <SvenLatham> | mmm looks like domain grabbers got opsn.com |
| 16:27:52 | <pauld> | Rober Mao, Microsoft, cites http://microformats.org/wiki/data-portability |
| 16:28:09 | <pauld> | s/Rober/Robert/ |
| 16:43:44 | <PhilWolff> | As the NorthAm Pacific Coast wakes up, Cork goes to supper |
| 16:46:04 | <danbri> | ACTION looks around for supper |
| 16:48:01 | <bunny_cork> | ACTION looks around for supper too |
| 16:50:20 | <JanSchmidt> | someone mentioned supper? |
| 16:52:39 | <aconbere> | did I hear supper |
| 17:06:56 | <Casablanca> | I can has supper? |
| 17:10:29 | <JanSchmidt> | lolz |
| 17:19:31 | <danbri> | interesting q re 'your' tags |
| 17:19:47 | <danbri> | in flickr, if you add tags to another persons photos, it seems more part of their data than yours |
| 17:23:13 | <bunny_cork> | tommorris: thanks SO much for all the tags |
| 17:23:28 | <tommorris> | bunny_cork: no problem |
Back to channel and daily index: content-negotiated html turtle
