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These logs are provided as an experiment in indexing discussions using IRCHub.py, Irc2RDF.hs, and SIOC.
| 06:31:07 | <mhausenblas> | good morning Web of Data |
| 06:35:27 | <drrho> | goodmorning, WODezzin! :-) |
| 06:44:23 | <mhausenblas> | drrho: you know, TMorrow never dies :D |
| 06:44:39 | <mhausenblas> | ACTION wondering if this was too subtle, now ;) |
| 06:45:34 | <mhausenblas> | tommorris: nice SPARQL lesson at OpenHack! and people had good questions as well ... |
| 06:56:28 | <drrho> | mhausenblas: :-]] |
| 07:03:21 | <mhausenblas> | ACTION thinks drrho got it ;) |
| 07:13:57 | <drrho> | ACTION working on a series of blog entries: TMs for RDFreaks ;-) |
| 07:17:26 | <mhausenblas> | ACTION is already and RDF_a_ddicted, sorry ;) |
| 07:17:33 | <mhausenblas> | s/and/an |
| 07:18:44 | <drrho> | Well, it is not meant for convincing. I am not a missionary. |
| 07:19:03 | <mhausenblas> | right ;) |
| 07:19:22 | <mhausenblas> | so, the other day I asked about news reader for Mac here (http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2009-05-22.html#T10-02-00) |
| 07:19:58 | <mhausenblas> | and, to conclude: it's NetNewsWire I finally found most usable |
| 07:36:30 | <besbes> | mhausenblas: i can recommend NetNewsWire on Mac+iphone, they sync your read status via newsgator |
| 07:36:39 | <besbes> | Ah, good morning btw |
| 07:47:26 | <mhausenblas> | besbes: yeah, I installed NetNewsWire on the MAc, didn't know they have it for iPhone as well - very cool |
| 09:00:37 | <mhausenblas> | http://webofdata.wordpress.com/2009/05/24/technology-malbestpracticing/ |
| 09:01:22 | <mhausenblas> | A:| Technology MalBestPracticing |
| 09:01:47 | <mhausenblas> | A: Thoughts on how RDF is abused and hence can discourage people using it |
| 09:02:36 | <mhausenblas> | A: Please add your own observations - I'd like to start to collect RDF anti-patterns to raise awareness |
| 09:13:09 | <drewp> | mhausenblas: i already disagree with the closed-world one :) |
| 09:13:54 | <drewp> | ACTION says, as he hacks on a site that uses sesame for storage but has no RDF connections with the outside world |
| 09:14:47 | <mhausenblas> | drewp: hey, it's a free Web, sure you can :) do comment on it, but I'm really convinced that this is a strong one ... |
| 09:14:52 | <mhausenblas> | I'm not saying that you can't use it |
| 09:15:12 | <mhausenblas> | of course you can, but what is the benefit over other solutions, there? |
| 09:15:39 | <mhausenblas> | believe me, I've seen so many projects (ok, rather research stuff, but ...) that basically said: |
| 09:15:46 | <drewp> | in my case, i -hope- to connect with other data sources someday. I have twitter accounts in here, for example |
| 09:16:08 | <mhausenblas> | ok. but then you have a point there |
| 09:16:46 | <mhausenblas> | and I'm happy updating it in the sense ... 'unless you plan for serendipity future use' |
| 09:16:55 | <drewp> | i guess you already said "and there is no need to share/incorporate other data", but that really limits the cases IME |
| 09:17:14 | <drewp> | as soon as your data involves "users", there's some big potential for sharing with other systems |
| 09:17:28 | <mhausenblas> | well, I was referring to current, actual usage, but didn't explicitly say future use as well |
| 09:17:35 | <mhausenblas> | drewp: true |
| 09:17:51 | <mhausenblas> | please add your thoughts to the blog, it's really very very helpful |
| 09:18:07 | <drewp> | other reasons to go ahead with rdf, even in a closed-world case: you get generic data browsers (e.g. tabulator) for free |
| 09:18:14 | <mhausenblas> | (planning to collect this and put it on a Wiki, maybe semanticweb.org or so) |
| 09:18:41 | <drewp> | queries with lots of joins are easier in sparql than sql, at least for me |
| 09:19:18 | <mhausenblas> | ok, fair enough (re queries) |
| 09:20:45 | <drewp> | to take the other side for a minute, an RDBMS plus D2R might be suitable for connecting with generic data browsers, even if you do your "real work" entirely on the SQL side |
| 09:20:57 | <drewp> | we've only just started to play with D2R but it's looking nice |
| 09:22:16 | <mhausenblas> | re generic data browser, yes, could be, but I bet people would be able to have counterexamples at hand |
| 09:22:20 | <mhausenblas> | ACTION BRB, off for some coffee ... |
| 11:36:37 | <gsnedders> | mhausenblas: It's hard to think of stuff as something that doesn't physically exist, though (re: "Thinking of RDF on the serialisation level.") |
| 11:47:18 | <mhausenblas> | gsnedders: hehe. I guess you're right. please bear with me, ain't no native speaker ;) |
| 11:48:56 | <kwijibo> | ACTION likes mhausenblas's post, writing reply |
| 11:48:56 | <phenny> | kwijibo: 21 May 23:19Z <kidehen> tell kwijibo voiD Data set is typically produced by the Triple / Quad Store instance |
| 11:48:58 | <phenny> | kwijibo: 21 May 23:20Z <kidehen> tell kwijibo voID data set takes the form of a graph e.g. http://lod.openlinksw.com/void/Dataset |
| 11:49:15 | <kwijibo> | thanks phenny |
| 11:50:37 | <mhausenblas> | ta kwijibo ;) |
| 11:54:45 | <kwijibo> | ACTION hits publish, goes to check, too late, for typos and formatting blunders |
| 12:01:35 | <mhausenblas> | yep, kwijibo, very nice post, http://blogs.talis.com/n2/archives/470 |
| 12:01:58 | <mhausenblas> | shall I link from my post or are you gonna leave a comment to point to yours? |
| 12:02:16 | <kwijibo> | thanks mhausenblas :) |
| 12:02:28 | <kwijibo> | i am writing a comment on yours anyway |
| 12:02:35 | <mhausenblas> | ah, cool, ta ma |
| 12:02:42 | <mhausenblas> | s/ma/man |
| 12:02:48 | <kwijibo> | there were som other ones i thought of that didn't fit in the post I wrote |
| 12:03:25 | <kwijibo> | mhausenblas: can I do html lists in your comments dyaknow ? |
| 12:03:57 | <mhausenblas> | hm. dunno. lemme check ... |
| 12:05:15 | <mhausenblas> | I can. but this might be due to being admin ... |
| 12:05:43 | <kwijibo> | it's ok, i just uses asterisks instead |
| 12:06:05 | <mhausenblas> | yep. ok. I can edit it afterwards ... |
| 12:09:43 | <mhausenblas> | ping bengee |
| 12:09:43 | <mhausenblas> | .seen bengee |
| 12:09:43 | <mhausenblas> | logger? |
| 12:09:44 | <phenny> | Sorry, I haven't seen bengee around. |
| 12:10:09 | <mhausenblas> | ah, yeah, sure, it's always the other bot ;) |
| 12:14:03 | <kwijibo> | lol |
| 12:14:08 | <kwijibo> | ACTION commented |
| 12:18:05 | <mhausenblas> | ... and approved ;) |
| 12:18:34 | <mhausenblas> | still, the list is not rendered correctly though I edited it. hm. |
| 12:18:34 | <kwijibo> | :) |
| 12:19:12 | <kwijibo> | fkcgin wordpress eh? |
| 12:19:27 | <kwijibo> | it always monkeys with your markup |
| 12:20:17 | <mhausenblas> | mhm, certainly true ;) |
| 14:51:41 | <LeeF> | ACTION replies to mhausenblas in violent disagreement, as he always does with these Linked Data Web Is the One And Only Way positions :-p |
| 14:53:15 | <mhausenblas> | ACTION thanks LeeF - the post was meant to provoke different opinions and I'm glad to read your (great!) reply |
| 15:40:46 | <LeeF> | ACTION :-) |
| 15:59:02 | <mhausenblas> | phenny, tell timbl that I've updated http://esw.w3.org/topic/WriteWebOfData now - please review/comment |
| 15:59:02 | <phenny> | mhausenblas: I'll pass that on when timbl is around. |
| 17:32:03 | <mhausenblas> | good nite Web of Data |
| 18:16:29 | <idmclean> | Greetings semanticians, What is new? |
| 18:21:52 | <idmclean> | Are there any ontologies out there which describe hypotheses? |
| 19:24:21 | <LeeF> | idmclean, you probably would be interested in the SWAN work that Tim Clark is doing |
| 19:29:43 | <idmclean> | Leef, thank you. I do believe SWAN is something I am looking for. |
| 19:39:25 | <idmclean> | LeeF, I was reading a textbook on Elementry Statistics yesterday, and I realized while reading hypothesis testing that using RDF, we could automate a large amount of hypothesis formation and testing using existing data sources. It would be something like folding@home but more generally applicable. |
| 20:11:46 | <Anchakor> | idmclean: hi, I am working on the example, progressing quite well, but now I got idea - do you think it is possible to extract function definition from programs themselves? basically function is just a piece of code using some built-in functions with few undecided variables = arguments... |
| 20:12:40 | <idmclean> | Anchakor, you mean reverse engineering from an executable? |
| 20:12:53 | <Anchakor> | idmclean: no from the semantics of the code |
| 20:13:54 | <idmclean> | Anchakor, extract function definitions from the abstract syntax tree, parse tree, or the abstract semantic graph? |
| 20:14:23 | <Anchakor> | idmclean: no, I am not talking about existing systems... |
| 20:14:45 | <Anchakor> | but maybe abstract semantic graphs is what I mean, I dunno what it really is |
| 20:15:38 | <idmclean> | Anchakor, I need you to elaborate on some more. If I am comprehending your question, I know you could do it in Java. java.lang.reflect is just for that purpose. |
| 20:18:04 | <Anchakor> | I mean like instead of defining a function, you write a code, a part of it you tag as some reusable complex, leaving some variables to fill in as arguments, defining a function in a different way... |
| 20:54:14 | <idmclean> | Anchakor, reusable complex? |
| 20:55:38 | <Anchakor> | idmclean: sorry I meant "concept" :) |
| 20:57:24 | <idmclean> | Anchakor, I grok your meaning. In Java, you can grab a method, you can grab the method's variables, you can grab the method's parameters, but I don't know if you can grab the block that represents the body of the method. |
| 20:58:47 | <idmclean> | Anchakor, you can also add annotations and serialize the methods as objects. I have no idea how to cleanly grab the method/function definition, but I imagine it is probably possible. |
| 21:01:35 | <idmclean> | I would research how the Java developers managed to do that. I suspect it would unveil a method of doing what you describe. |
| 21:03:32 | <Anchakor> | I think the method wouldn't be to hard to figure out, I am more concerned if it really would prove as useful for something... |
| 21:05:34 | <idmclean> | Anchakor, it would be useful for automating software design, development, and testing, so I would find it very useful. It means I could describe what I want and let the computer figure out the details. |
| 21:08:48 | <Anchakor> | yeah, I imagine you could host your open source code on your website as linked data |
| 21:09:22 | <Anchakor> | that alone makes it useful |
| 21:09:35 | <idmclean> | Yup |
| 21:12:39 | <idmclean> | Also, we could run source code through analyzers to perform algorithm analysis, breed new algorithms, and perform hypothesis testing on different iterations and variations of the source code. |
| 21:43:25 | <idmclean> | Anchakor, people could call your functions remotely via URI namespaces. |
| 21:56:10 | <idmclean> | No need to download libraries locally if you can pick off the pieces you need remotely as you need them. |
| 23:04:20 | <Anchakor> | idmclean: yeah exactly |
| 23:05:08 | <Anchakor> | I guess caches will become more important then |
| 23:14:58 | <idmclean> | Anchakor, It depends on how you use that capability. If I were to write a program that was compiled into an executable, nothing would change about the executable. At the development level, I would simply download the relevant code from the libraries online as part of compiling my source code. |
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