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These logs are provided as an experiment in indexing discussions using IRCHub.py, Irc2RDF.hs, and SIOC.
| 00:29:44 | <Shepard> | the audience didn't seem to get that reference though ;) |
| 05:57:03 | <gromgull> | gooooood morning #swig... |
| 05:59:58 | <bengee> | oh, wifi workie? |
| 06:00:26 | <gromgull> | kind of |
| 06:00:34 | <gromgull> | well - we're only just gettign started |
| 06:00:40 | <gromgull> | it will break when everyone connects I guess |
| 08:05:02 | <mhausenblas> | morning Web of Data |
| 08:05:45 | <kwijibo> | morning mhausenblas , still living it large ? |
| 08:09:13 | <mhausenblas> | kwijibo: all well here |
| 08:09:37 | <mhausenblas> | network is bit crap but seems to work |
| 08:10:06 | <kwijibo> | network crap - you must be at a european semantic web conference :D |
| 08:11:08 | <mhausenblas> | kwijibo: get lost :D |
| 08:11:16 | <kwijibo> | ouch |
| 08:12:17 | <mhausenblas> | SPOT09 was cool, tutorial went fine as well |
| 08:13:02 | <mhausenblas> | the SFSW talk where I presented Stephane's great Drupal stuff was also fine - good questions, comments |
| 08:13:48 | <kwijibo> | cool :) Drupal stuff = Neologism ? |
| 08:14:16 | <gromgull> | no - they use the drupal content... thingy to automagically provide rdfa |
| 08:21:18 | <kwijibo> | gromgull, mhausenblas anyone got a link ? |
| 08:21:25 | <kwijibo> | (to the drupal stuff) |
| 08:22:09 | <gromgull> | hmm - http://semanticscripting.org/SFSW2009/short_3.pdf |
| 08:22:09 | <gromgull> | is the paper |
| 08:22:09 | <gromgull> | perhaps there are links in there, |
| 08:22:26 | <gromgull> | my wifi is too damn slow to get it now though :) |
| 08:22:26 | <gromgull> | Actually - i might have a local copy |
| 08:22:39 | <mhausenblas> | kwijibo: see http://www.semanticscripting.org/SFSW2009/short_3.pdf |
| 08:23:07 | <kwijibo> | thanks gromgull + mhausenblas :) |
| 08:26:44 | <gromgull> | of course the lazy good-for-nothing organisers of sfsw didn't manage to get their proceedings on the conference usb stick |
| 08:32:03 | <gromgull> | besbes, are you in the demo session? |
| 08:32:03 | <gromgull> | by chance? |
| 08:33:02 | <besbes> | gromgull, sorry no, have to give my presentation in the applications session |
| 08:33:43 | <mhausenblas> | gromgull: do you know one of these SFSW09 OC slackers personally? :) |
| 08:35:00 | <mhausenblas> | ACTION sitting next to gromgull. better take care what I say here :) |
| 08:35:09 | <gromgull> | ah right |
| 08:35:09 | <gromgull> | No worries - i was going to point to you and mention gnowsis.com when talking about nepomuk shortly |
| 08:35:34 | <besbes> | gromgull, ah great -- but you still can do this :-) just refer to the guy with the baby ... |
| 08:36:07 | <besbes> | and, i will present gnowsis.com at the lightning talk session tomorrow |
| 08:36:21 | <gromgull> | ah nice |
| 11:42:24 | <leobard> | hello #eswc2009, any interesting news from crete? awaiting that you guys get good internet access... |
| 11:45:32 | <mhausenblas> | leobard: you can wait till the cows come home :D |
| 11:49:19 | <bengee> | http://personal.eswc2009.org/live |
| 11:49:28 | <leobard> | apparently dr haus has internet.... btw: the only pic on flickr from eswc sofar is this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ciro/3584667532/ |
| 11:49:39 | <leobard> | but I see bengee is twittering like a hamster: http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23eswc2009 |
| 11:49:40 | <bengee> | B:|chatter and pics from eswc2009 |
| 11:50:04 | <bengee> | B:not (m)any pics yet, though.. |
| 11:53:31 | <hhalpin> | I heard there's internet somewhere in california :) |
| 11:54:05 | <hhalpin> | in crete we're ordering emergency internet, but the pipes aren't big enough :) |
| 11:56:11 | <Pipian> | hhalpin: Where you at? |
| 11:56:49 | <Pipian> | ACTION is hacking on some linked data wonkery due to uninteresting talks this afternoon |
| 11:57:47 | <mhausenblas> | Pipian++ ... less talking, more executing ;) |
| 12:12:02 | <Anchakor> | tobyink: that uri ontology is a good idea, would some article/spec be made? really seems worth it... I like that it uses terms of the current web :) |
| 12:13:41 | <tobyink> | Anchakor: yes, it would probably be a good idea to create a more human-readable version, which could also explain some of the rationale behind it. |
| 12:15:26 | <tobyink> | e.g. rdf:values are literals. This is because { <x> owl:sameAs <y> ; u:identifier [ rdf:value <x> ] ; u:identifier [ rdf:value <y> ] . } doesn't provide much information when <x> and <y> have been smushed together by OWL reasoning. |
| 12:24:21 | <hhalpin> | tobyink: send me the URI ontology if you wish, put the URI of it here in SWIG. |
| 12:24:34 | <hhalpin> | tobyink: I've been working on a "ontology of resources" available here: |
| 12:24:45 | <tobyink> | http://purl.org/NET/uri |
| 12:25:01 | <hhalpin> | http://purl.org/NET/irw/ |
| 12:26:02 | <hhalpin> | hmmm...maybe we should merge these. |
| 12:26:11 | <hhalpin> | I'll look at in depth at some point soon. |
| 12:26:43 | <Anchakor> | tobyink: there has been lot of talk about persistance of uris, I am wondering if w3c didn't do anything with some success in this direction... |
| 12:26:46 | <hhalpin> | ACTION is in lounge next to restaurant of Knossos hotel in HTML. |
| 12:29:43 | <hhalpin> | I believe the W3C has been reluctant to create its own PURL service. |
| 12:29:59 | <hhalpin> | but now with SemWeb taking off a bit, vocabulary hosting and persistence may be back on the agenda. |
| 12:30:17 | <Anchakor> | Im not talking about services, I am talking about ontology describing uris |
| 12:30:28 | <hhalpin> | Oh, for that there is: |
| 12:30:37 | <hhalpin> | http://www.w3.org/2006/gen/ont |
| 12:30:42 | <hhalpin> | From Tabulator |
| 12:31:00 | <hhalpin> | http://www.w3.org/TR/HTTP-in-RDF/ |
| 12:31:04 | <hhalpin> | HTTP in RDF Working Draft |
| 12:31:16 | <hhalpin> | Not exactly what tobyink is talking about, but in same sort of space. |
| 12:31:18 | <tobyink> | http://purl.org/NET/irw/ - argh, Tabulator doesn't seem to like. |
| 12:31:28 | <hhalpin> | Can you give me error message? |
| 12:31:40 | <hhalpin> | It might be <!-- comment --> topbraid composer puts at end :( |
| 12:31:47 | <hhalpin> | Will try to fix shortly. |
| 12:32:09 | <tobyink> | It's the generic text/xml MIME type - it just doesn't realise it's looking at RDF at all. |
| 12:33:49 | <Anchakor> | I can see the ontology overlap |
| 12:34:30 | <Pipian> | ACTION is feeling quite lazy and is writing a PHP wrapper for roqet to make a SPARQL endpoint from a static Turtle file. |
| 12:34:48 | <Anchakor> | tobyink: would be good to map between the ontologies ;) |
| 12:35:16 | <tobyink> | Also, I have some HTTP-in-RDF extensions. http://buzzword.org.uk/rdf/http-ext# |
| 12:35:55 | <tobyink> | Anchakor: it's always good to map between ontologies. (Unless they assume fundamentally incompatible world views.) |
| 12:40:48 | <hhalpin> | Ah, OK, I'm not hosting the ontology, but will ping the host to do media type correctly. |
| 12:52:40 | <mhausenblas> | hhalpin: still waiting to receive a mail :) |
| 13:26:44 | <melvster> | is it reasonable to have an rdf policy of having no bnodes in documents? |
| 13:27:18 | <kjetilkWork> | melvster, yeah, I try to maintain that policy |
| 13:27:21 | <Anchakor> | I think it is |
| 13:27:42 | <melvster> | so lets say i have some bnodes, i need to zap them with rdf:ID or rdf:about, yes? |
| 13:27:43 | <kjetilkWork> | ...in new things I write, I should add :-) |
| 13:50:35 | <tobyink> | melvster: there are certainly advantages to avoiding bnodes. e.g. a bnode-free graph can be reliably canonicalised. |
| 13:51:46 | <kwijibo> | talis platform doesn't have bnodes |
| 13:57:02 | <iand> | hard to link to a bnode |
| 13:58:59 | <kwijibo> | iand: hard but not impossible ? |
| 13:59:22 | <iand> | I guess I could think of a way using IFPs for indirection |
| 13:59:24 | <reto> | tobyink, canonicalizing with bnodes: you might now jcc's paper: http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2003/HPL-2003-142.pdf |
| 13:59:25 | <kwijibo> | i guess you create your own bnode |
| 13:59:39 | <iand> | but that assumes that everyone agrees which properties are IFPs |
| 13:59:48 | <kwijibo> | then you could link somehow from that bnode back to the document containing the original document |
| 14:00:07 | <reto> | kwijibo, this would not be a bnode |
| 14:00:25 | <reto> | bnode do not have identifier, that's a serialization specific thing |
| 14:00:34 | <kwijibo> | no, i know |
| 14:00:35 | <tobyink> | reto: yes, I'm familiar with it. Some graphs with bnodes are canonicalisable, but *all* graphs without bnodes are canonicalisable. |
| 14:00:37 | <reto> | so it would be document+query |
| 14:00:45 | <kwijibo> | reto, sure |
| 14:01:00 | <Pipian> | Augh, come back SSH session |
| 14:01:38 | <reto> | kwijibo, afact all graphs with bnodes can be canonicaizaed, and for real world case in reasonable time |
| 14:02:09 | <reto> | jjc's algoritm is to optimize computation time, otherwise the meaningless triples would not be needed |
| 14:05:49 | <kwijibo> | i was thinking something along the lines of, if I see a bnode description of you in a <1.rdf> , and I want to link to it, I obviously can't because it doesn't have an identifier outside of its document scope, but I could make my own bnode like: : <#me> foaf:knows [ foaf:nick "Reto" ; foaf:page <1.rdf> . ] |
| 14:08:30 | <Anchakor> | bnode is sort of rdf wildcard |
| 14:45:00 | <melvster> | right im going to try and avoid bnodes completely then |
| 14:45:15 | <melvster> | any tips on what to replace them with? a good naming scheme? |
| 14:46:36 | <Anchakor> | I had some trouble deciding what to use as such "local" namespace too... how about http://bnodes/123 ? :) |
| 14:58:19 | <Pipian_> | http://www.telegraphis.net/data/countries/ |
| 14:58:42 | <Pipian_> | F:|Linked Data URIs for countries by country code. |
| 14:59:40 | <Pipian_> | F:Along the lines of Geonames's http://geonames.org/countries/# URIs, except bearing semantics. |
| 15:00:29 | <Pipian_> | F:Also uses owl:sameAs to link together the sws.geonames.org URIs with dbpedia and the /countries/# URIs. |
| 15:00:45 | <Pipian_> | Probably should write up a VOID doc for it too. |
| 15:00:53 | <Pipian_> | In the same vein... |
| 15:01:27 | <Shepard> | Anchakor: but if everyone would use http://bnodes/ then that would totally defeat the point as you might clash with other people's URIs. unless you stick a UUID at the end of it or something :) |
| 15:01:58 | <Pipian_> | http://www.telegraphis.net/data/continents/ works for continents. I'm trying to clean up and make consistent URIs for capitals and subdivisions too, although there's still some mapping work to be done. |
| 15:02:23 | <Pipian_> | G:|Linked Data URIs for continents (by Geonames continent code). |
| 15:02:58 | <Shepard> | AFAIK http://geonames.org/countries/# is supposed to bear semantics and get used in other places in sws.geonames.org - it just needs fixing :) |
| 15:03:16 | <Pipian_> | I don't know why I got into making those URIs when airports was the way I got started with this. |
| 15:04:18 | <Pipian_> | Oh, it's linked in, but about all you can get out of it is (theoretically) querying for things in a country. You can't actually get the country data from it :) |
| 15:04:35 | <Pipian_> | At least last I checked there wasn't RDFa on that page ;) |
| 15:05:44 | <Pipian_> | Had to code up a few makeshift vocabs too, as there weren't any straightforward ones for some of the properties I wanted to represent (e.g. country codes) |
| 15:06:01 | <Pipian_> | SPARQL endpoints though, which Geonames doesn't have yet ;) |
| 15:06:49 | <Pipian_> | (A horrible kludge where I wrap a call to roqet on the command-line, but...) |
| 15:07:02 | <kwijibo> | ACTION wishes for a firefox add on that did colour syntax highlighting display of turtle/n3 |
| 15:07:10 | <Shepard> | well, I think they wanted to make it so you can get data from there. but yeah, no SPARQL |
| 15:07:31 | <kwijibo> | or even just rendered it instead of making the file open in something else |
| 15:07:44 | <Pipian_> | D2R seemed a bit heavy-weight for a server where I started by running lighttpd :) |
| 15:07:59 | <Shepard> | hmm, the airport service on http://www.daml.org/2001/10/html/ doesn't seem to work anymore. but the airport ontology is still useful: http://www.daml.org/2001/10/html/airport-ont |
| 15:08:10 | <Pipian_> | Also, conneg on most of those URIs too. |
| 15:08:30 | <Pipian_> | (default text/n3, application/rdf+xml supported) |
| 15:08:38 | <Pipian_> | Yep. |
| 15:08:42 | <PovAddict> | ACTION wants such a firefox addon too, and a Kate plugin for syntax highlighting, and a standalone desktop app to see the graph sfructure of any rdf |
| 15:08:56 | <Pipian_> | That's why I've got http://www.telegraphis.net/data/airports/(airport-code)#(airport-code) |
| 15:09:10 | <Pipian_> | Which I'm trying to link back in to the countries, etc. |
| 15:09:15 | <Pipian_> | Thus the diversion. |
| 15:10:58 | <kwijibo> | why the slash and the hash ? |
| 15:10:59 | <Pipian_> | So, for example, http://www.telegraphis.net/data/airports/LGIR#LGIR |
| 15:11:09 | <Shepard> | it's a good addition to lingvoj. we need more linked data for all sorts of codes, especially ISO ones. I hope lingvoj will cover script codes as well at some point. and then there's the currency codes |
| 15:11:32 | <Pipian_> | Didn't want to have to mint two URIs by doing a redirect. |
| 15:12:03 | <Pipian_> | Yeah, I almost got caught up in doing currency codes... But I have to scrape them for each country, so that's going to be fun. |
| 15:12:42 | <Shepard> | would be nice if http://www.telegraphis.net/data/airports/ provided the complete list / dataset, if that's not too big :) |
| 15:12:51 | <Shepard> | some for continents and countries |
| 15:13:29 | <Pipian_> | Continents and countries do so. Airports I haven't gotten to yet, as I've not properly fixed up the links back to countries. |
| 15:13:32 | <Shepard> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_4217 should be pretty complete |
| 15:13:47 | <kwijibo> | Pipian_:++ for the linked data (and for when you publish voiD about it ;) ) |
| 15:16:03 | <Anchakor> | Shepard: than perhaps relative uri "._bnodes/123> |
| 15:16:08 | <Pipian_> | So yeah, I'm not sure if doing the # instead of a redirect is outdated these days. |
| 15:16:18 | <Anchakor> | <._bnodes> I mean |
| 15:16:21 | <Pipian_> | it does seem like less work to resolve though. |
| 15:16:48 | <Pipian_> | (And still isolates the document URI from the object URI) |
| 15:17:01 | <kwijibo> | Pipian_: yeah, seems good |
| 15:34:17 | <tobyink> | Anchakor: URI fragments can contain slashes, so you could use <#bnodes/123> to represent a bnode. |
| 15:36:56 | <tobyink> | Pipian_: http://goddamn.co.uk/viewvc/misc/airports/ |
| 15:37:45 | <Pipian_> | Hm, which dataset are they using? |
| 15:37:52 | <Pipian_> | I think it's the same if it's a CSV file. |
| 15:38:09 | <Pipian_> | Ah, they're using the broader one. |
| 15:40:24 | <tobyink> | they = me. |
| 15:40:52 | <Pipian_> | (I'm using http://openflights.org/data.html, and plan to use their Airlines one as well, whereas they're using one of the source datasets for that, OurAirports) |
| 15:40:54 | <tobyink> | It was just a quick mock-up for someone who wanted a demonstration of converting CSV data to RDF IIRC. |
| 15:41:04 | <Pipian_> | Aha |
| 15:41:46 | <Pipian_> | Anyway, gonna get going. |
| 15:47:55 | <tobyink> | phenny: The CSV file I used was ourairports.com/data/airports.csv |
| 16:09:42 | <DanC> | ACTION wishes for a UML diagram of this PDB stuff |
| 16:17:34 | <mhausenblas> | DanC: PDB? |
| 16:17:41 | <DanC> | .g PDB protein |
| 16:17:41 | <phenny> | DanC: http://www.rcsb.org/ |
| 16:17:53 | <mhausenblas> | ACTION notes that DanC always has new cool stuff, so eager to learn |
| 16:18:12 | <mhausenblas> | ta |
| 20:07:05 | <Anchakor> | phenny: tell tobyink I was wondering if rather not use from sub-delims which is part of pchar, as it would be more semanticly appropriate maybe... ( http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3.5 ) / or . is not much difference |
| 20:07:05 | <phenny> | Anchakor: I'll pass that on when tobyink is around. |
| 21:13:19 | <drobilla> | is it possible to express, in owl, an instance of whatever class must be the /object/ of such and such properties on some other object? |
| 21:13:58 | <drobilla> | scenario is: the class is a group of things that do not have URIs, and those things have 'roles' in the group |
| 21:14:10 | <drobilla> | to be valid, a group must have such and such set of roles |
| 21:14:46 | <drobilla> | (yes, this is weird, but the things do not and can not have URIs for other reasons) |
| 23:03:59 | <gsnedders> | Is there any way to use one SPARQL query as the FROM of another? The grammar doesn't allow it, so I'm guessing I'd need to do processing in-app to create the FROM statement. |
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